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  1. The Pakistani logic is that Mirpuris are not Kashmiris based on their tribal/clan names and language and historical state boundaries.
    Well in that case no one from Azad Kashmir including the people from Poonch and Muzaffarabad is a Kashmiri.
    In fact in Kashmir why are the leaders of APHC being allowed to call themselves Kashmiris as Mirwaiz Umar Farooq, Ali Gillani, Shabbir Shah and Abas Ansari and Mulla Budgami all claim to be ARABS, they are not ethnic Kashmiris and so why are they allowed not only to claim to be Kashmiris but they are allowed to be the official leaders of Kashmiris.

    If it is because they speak Kashmiri, then why are these Butts, Dars and other Punjabi speakers from Lahore allowed to call themselves Kashmiri as they cannot speak Kashmiri.

    So is one a Kashmiri based on race or language or geography?

    If it is based on geogrpahy and only people from a few districts are allowed to be Kashmiri, why the winter capital of Kashmir is Jammu and why do all Kashmiri leaders go there. Why presidents and MP in Parlaiment in Srinager are from outside the geographic area of Kashmir.

    Also if we are going to apply this logic, it has to be extended throughout Pakistan.

    Well then based on language and tribal names and historical boundaries all that claim to be Punjabis will also not be Punjabis.
    Based on historical tribal names only Jatts, Rajput and Gujjar and some other can be Punjabis, all Sayeds, qureshis, Butts, Awan, Dar, Lone, wani, Niazi, Mughal, Abbasssi, Yusufzai and others can also not claim to be Punjabis.
    Based on Language about 60% of the land surface of Punjab is inhabited by Seraiki and Hindko/pothohari speakers and so they also cannot claim to be Punjabis.
    Based on historical boundaries the state of Punjab today is not what it was in the past and so that can also impact on who can be termed a Punjabi.
    In Baluchistan the people who live there are Baluch, Brahui and Pashtuns and Jatts. So are the real inhabitants only the Baluch and should the other 65% of the population of Baluchistan Just disappear and die.
    In SIndh the inhabitants are the Jatts, Rajput and Rind and Domki and others and also Muhajirs. So who has a right to be called Sindhis Just the Jatts and Rajputs as the Domki, Rind, Marri and others are Baluch and the Qureshis are also not sindhis.
    NWFP which is now called KPK, what is the name to describe their inhabitants. Who can claim to be from there?
    So is one a Kashmiri, Punjabi, Baluch and Sindhi based on ethnic tribal origins or language or geography?
    Lets make a decision and lets stick to it, but no Pakistani will make a decision or have a policy on anything.
    The point is that why are only Mirpuris being told that they belong nowhere, based on standards that these Pakistanis never apply to themselves. ?

    • JattPunyal

      I was showing/listening to this podcast with my family, as they are over here for eid. They were unaware of all this.

      Jat your point is so insightful. Very very true. There is big irony here Jatt. The people with most clout in Valley Kashmir claim to be Central Asians, Persians, Arabs, etc a quick check of their DNA would bring them back to earth. Historically Valley Kashmiris of native origin were looked down at, and many of their children today point this out in their writings, but our caste-Kashmiris in Panjab, who probably weren’t even from Valley Kashmir, from very poor backgrounds, seem to think they are “special”, that they are real Kashmiris, but the people who actually live in this Kashmir – that the whole world, including India and Pakistan, calls Kashmir, aren’t.

      Of Jatt, Gujjar, Rajput etc etc, it was the colonial experts who were saying these people were from Central Asia or West Asia, Scythians, Aryans, Huns – they didnt say this about Kashmiris, or Jilanis, they said this about Jats, Gujajrs etc albeit who came to India thousands of years ago, and it appears from DNA studies, these people do have these far-away connections. You don’t see these groups going around saying they are from somewhere else, hating themselves like these pseudo-foriegners, because they are the children of the soil.

      These people who want to demean Mirpuris should really think about what they are saying. It seems to me they dont even know their own history, and the history of the areas they live in, but they going to comment on who is “Kashmiri” in Azad Kashmir, even though people in Mirpur don’t even care about these things. I have never once heard a Mirpuri offering expertise on Sindh, Baluchistan, Panjab, but these Pakistani experts all over the internet want to tell us constantly who Mirpuris are.

      It seems we fare much more in their imagination, then they fare in our imagination. We don’t even think about these things.

      You are absolutely right Jatt, these people who want to constantly talk about Mirpuris, demean us because of their own insecurities and ignorance, need a big reality check.

      Eid Mubarak Jat and everyone else reading this.

      • Gujjar

        eid Mubarak to family and you

        on this point and the other point u made, so you agree, there is no Pakistani brotherhood in UK? they been saying bad things about us since we got here before the 1950s. Its so bad now, people are embarrassed to say they Mirpuris because of the climate of hate Pakistanis have created for us. they think their so special, the tweets here, about not being Mirpuri alhamdulillah, laughing at aunty who came to ask rishta for son, swearing “fkn they were Mirpuris”, gujjarBrother, rest of u here defending Pakistan, these your people, not my people.

        d**** l***** s*****, look at them, whats so special about them, as if our community is lacking in beautiful people, look how deluded they are. how come we dont pass comments on their appearances, and make them feel small? we got no future with these people.

        I respect ur right to express ur opinion, because we respect each other unlike these Pakistanis, because we live in UK. I wouldn’t be allowed to express my opinion in my own homeland of AJK, is that fair? and we talking about brotherhood, come on brothers.

        then they come on this site to lecture us about how bad we are, and how innocent they are, alhamdulillah!


        Your comments have been edited. Please ensure you do not use offensive language in the future. Thanks

  2. This is a good initiative to forward the debate on what ‘Mirpuris’, ‘Kashmiris’, ‘Jamwaals’, ‘Pahaaris’ and ‘AJKites’ are. What is the level of connection between the diaspora in the UK and those inhabitants (subjects or citizens) of AJK. Can the benefits of living in an evolved democracy with a heavy legacy of colonialism (the UK) play any meaningful or constructive role in providing the same benefits to AJK (non-existant on the world map or global imagination), a territory stuck between 2 possessive and intolerant narratives in the shape of Indian and Pakistani nationalism?

    I hope the above thread will be pursued in forthcoming podcasts.


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