Dear British Paharis

I speak to you through this medium as a brother from Indian Occupied Kashmir. I speak to you for our shared homeland, history, and continuous struggle against oppression and aggression. We are the children of hills and mountains. We fought collectively against the brutality of the Dogra Regime for our freedom and many before them, and now today we continue our fight for freedom while a line of illegal control cuts through the heart of our homeland and divides it into two. It’s because of this very illegal line that our families are divided and we can’t even meet each other. This illegal line divides people and homes. It’s because of this illegal line that we are unable to share the space with each other in our own homeland. Our fight against this illegal division must continue until every barricade between us is removed and we are able to breathe in our land free of every hindrance imposed upon us by foreign aggressors.

The State of Jammu and Kashmir is a land of strong diversity. It’s an abode to people of various ethnicities and languages. Our state is a unit comprised of different ethnic and linguistic groups, our identity is a pan-J&K identity. We are all born in the lap of the Himalayas. Every community and every language adds a beautiful color to our land. Every citizen of this state has an equal right to this land and its history, tradition and culture. No matter the ethnicity, whether Koshur or Pahari, or any other; our shared homeland, our shared history, and this conflict in which we are caught together stand testimony to the fact that we are all Kashmiris. Every hereditary state subject of this land is a Kashmiri, it’s our state, it belongs to all of us equally.

Brothers and sisters, we are all from Kashmir, we are one people, we are all Kashmiris. A few decades old illegal line built by foreign aggressors can not break the bond of centuries that we have with our shared homeland and with each other. We have all lived in this land we call Jammu & Kashmir for centuries, but they want us to become Indians and Pakistanis and forget our own identity. They seem to have forgotten that we don’t forget.

Kashmir isn’t just a territorial issue between India and Pakistan, Kashmir is our homeland, it’s our home; we have lived here together in our homeland even before these two nations had a separate existence. The solution to the Kashmir issue can not come from outside. Pakistan and India has no right to speak on our behalf. Kashmir does not belong to India or Pakistan, it belongs to the native people of this region, who have lived in this part of the world for centuries. It’s our land and we will decide its future, and the future of Kashmir lies in freedom; freedom from discrimination, oppression, subjugation, and freedom from every foreign aggression. The future of Kashmir lies in peace and there’s no peace under occupation.

For peace to exist, the occupation must end.

Our struggle has to continue, come what may. It has faced many challenges and we have fought them valiantly and will continue to do so. Oppressors in Indian Occupied Kashmir are devising new methods to terrorize us, they improvise their oppressive tactics every day. They have unleashed a million strong armed force upon us that brutalizes and murders us with complete impunity. The land has bloodied rivers flowing through it, death is a guest in every other home. Kashmiris are being injured, maimed and killed every day. Under such circumstances, we need to get together and unite firmly in our resolve to fight the occupation. We need each other’s support to get through these dark days of oppression. We need to break the imbroglio imposed upon us by that ‘illegal line’, we need to connect more with each other and create new and strong alliances to move ahead in our collective struggle against occupation. We need to keep alive the flame of freedom together and enlighten our way out of occupation, so that this beautiful land and its people are bruised no more. Only if we are together, we will be able to see the dawn of that beautiful freedom that we all have been dreaming about. We, the people of this bruised land have to come together and heal every bit of it.

Yours,

Mudasir Ali Lone
Pulwama, Indian Occupied Kashmir

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I’m currently pursuing M.Tech (Computer Science) from MANUU, Hyderabad, India. While I’m not learning about machines and artificial intelligence, I find myself interested in the social, cultural, and linguistic diversity of Kashmir and the shared history of the people of this region. I tweet at @aleemudasir

My opinions are not necessarily those of the Portmir Foundation; the Foundation does not do censorship; if you disagree with any us, and you’re from our background, whether you are pro-independence, pro-India, or pro-Pakistan, write your own opinion piece and we’ll publish it. You can contact us at info@portmir.org.uk.

17 COMMENTS

  1. Thank you Mudasir,

    Its very refreshing and re-assuring to see a post from the Valley of Kashmir here.

    I liked these two sentences in particular:

    “The solution to the Kashmir issue can not come from outside. Pakistan and India has no right to speak on our behalf.”

    Once again, thank you for presenting your view. There is no better way to counter the propaganda that diverts or confuses the outside world about us. I hope views can also be presented here from Ladakh, Jammu and Gilgit Baltistan.

  2. But you are happy to enjoy Indian state funded education and happily studying in Hyderabad, India?

    By the way one can be Kashmiri and Indian at same time. As the rest of us are Punjabu, Gujarati, Maharastrian, Rajasthani, Bihari …..and the list goes on but in the end we are known as Indian and we feel proud of being Indian. Jay Hind

    • Dhab Sharma

      Why the hostility to brother Mudasir, who is only speaking to his brethren from so-called Azad Jammu & Kashmir living in the UK? You may view yourself an Indian, good for you, but he doesn’t consider himself an Indian, anymore than many of us from Pakistan-Occupied Jammu & Kashmir consider ourselves Pakistanis. Why is this so hard for Indians and Pakistanis to understand?

      • Myra,
        The hostility of Dab Sharma is because he knows that there is no such thing as an indian. India is so diverse that there is not one single aspect of being indian that can be shared by all it’s citizens. The so called indians share nothing in common with one another. They therefore fear J&K citizens when they deny being indians as in fact no one is indian and india has yet to be fully defined.

        As subjects of J&K we share absolutely nothing in common with Tamils, Keralans and many other so called Indians. Personally I have met many of these Tamils and Kerelans and they are wonderful and nice people but I am not one of them and they are not the same as us. All people have a right to be who they want and live in freedom. D Sharma sadly cannot accept that point.

  3. Pakistanis and people in POK and IOK all agree that what is going on in valley is wrong. We are all agreed on this and many people have spoken out against this including people from POK. But absolutely no one is advocating for those who are suffering tyranny under Pakistani occupation in POK(“A”JK and GB). The Indians don’t care about the other half of their Kashmir, so there is no powerful country to speak on behalf of our side like Pakistanis for IOK. Furthermore, we are too busy trying to convince our own diaspora that they are not Pakistani and that their people are occupied and oppressed in POK. And all the popular social media activists from POK spend their time criticising India anyway and are Pro-Pakistani.

    I know most people in the valley see POK as the other half of their country and they want an independent state and don’t want to join Pakistan. In my short time on twitter, I’ve seen reluctance to criticise Pakistan and its nefarious role in both IOK and POK. This is understandable because Pakistanis seem to be an ally against the Indian occupation of JK.

    I think for this relationship to work, we’re going to have to see more criticism of BOTH occupiers coming from those in the valley, just like people from POK criticise both occupiers. Pakistanis are in many ways just as culpable for the situation in IOK as the Indians are. They are not benign either. India has very little to do with the tyranny being wrought upon those in POK. Yet we criticise India along with Pakistan, and rightly so. But this soft spot seems to remain for Pakistan in IOK who hardly deserve it.

    Pakistanis are delusional and shameless people, they’ll continue chasing after their “jugular vein” even if you shut the door on them and tell them to go away and stop interfering in your affairs. I don’t think it will do too much harm to criticise Pakistan’s role in both IOK and POK once in a while, seen as we are one state, being occupied by both Pakistan and India.

    For those who are criticising both occupiers, I salute them. This is my message mainly for those who seem to have a soft spot for Pakistan.

  4. Pahari

    Firstly Portmir keeps deleting my messages. Why? Pakistanis don’t own us. **** **** Stop it please. You can’t stand them I can tell. I’m talking about their horrible flag waving patriots, so let us speak to them, there are lots of us, more than them.

    Anyway to your message, it never made sense to me either, people insisting on Azadi for their people and independence for the State are waving Pakistani flags????? It seems stupid almost staged. Foolish. So why are Azad Kashmiris saying they are not Azad, proud of their status as activists for freedom, and they fly the Jammu Kashmir Liberation Front flag proudly and JKPNP flag proudly and all the other flags of the independence Kashmiris, the thousands of activists from Pakistan-OCCUPIED-Kashmir. These people, OUR people, our ELDERS are proper freedom fighters, they stick two fingers up at the Pakistani State and they are quick to criticise the Indians no questions asked. They get so upset about the violations in the Valley. But the Kashmiris in India demanding Independence are flying Pakistani flags but they say we want Azadi from India AND PAKISTAN.

    Is this the hypocrisy people talk about when they become disillusioned about an independent Kashmir? Is this what people mean when they say, these Kashmiris don’t even know who they are but they claim all of Kashmir for themselves. So this is the divide and rule everyone is talking about?

    Hardly any loyalty to Pakistan Occupied Kashmir, so why do we keep attacking India, but they want to support Pakistan AND THEY WANT Azadi for the State? I think Pakistan Occupied Kashmir and all the activists should focus more on the efforts against the Pakistani Occupier. That is what he is, he is an OCCUPIER and he is really shameless. He has no shame. Everyone in Kotli hates them except the sell outs who didn’t listen about Pakistani indoctrination in their “free” Kashmir schools WITH NO ROOFS AND TOILETS. Most of us want nothing to do with this Occupier and his little diaspora in the UK, there are more of us than his people who insult Mirpuris every day. We should start raising an awareness on OCCUPIED AJK. I have been spending some time on twitter too, I’m more facebook and instagram, u need to go there especially facebook. Facebook, they are all old type people though. I like the whole… there is no A in AJK. that is catchy!

    Portmir Foundation does not believe in censorship.

    • Hi Myra,

      Follow me on @Pahari10101. Even if there is more of us than them. There can never be enough of “us”. We need to make alliances wherever we can. Those in the Valley who don’t criticise Pakistan don’t want to lose an ally in Pakistan. It’s an understandable sentiment. They are wrong though, we need to give a reality check to both occupiers that we are aware of their intentions. Neither Pakistan, nor India wants to resolve the Kashmir issue. Pakistani support for valley Kashmiris is a farce so both countries can milk the conflict to exploit the resources in their respective Kashmir and continue funding their military.

      Similar to the Mirpuri boogeyman that united the Brit-Pakistani community who had nothing in common, Pakistan and India also needed a boogeyman to unite the respective nations within their countries and they found that boogeyman within each other. They don’t want to resolve the Kashmir issue. They don’t want peace. We need to expose the Pakistanis.

      Those in the valley are mostly for independence and don’t fly the Pakistani flags. Support for Pakistan is dying by the day. 17-18 million Kashmiris is enough. We don’t need Pakistani or Indian support. We should wake up our diaspora who are the most powerful JK diaspora. We need to get the Pandits, Dogris, Ladakhis, Gilgitis on our side. Why are Pakistanis being our “Chache” and advocating for us? We should demand to speak for ourselves and our own people under Indian occupation in the valley.

      I think those in both parts are realising they need each other more than they can trust the Pakistanis to deliver them “Azaadi”, we need to help those still deluded to reach this conclusion. The pro-India elements in India are more anti-Pakistan, than they are pro-India. We can get them on board too. Give the Pakistanis a good kicking or two in the bollocks and they’ll know we are with them and not with the Pakistanis.

      Follow all of us on twitter, whoever reads this, even if it’s just to stay informed. Like and retweet others if you have nothing to say. We need to support each other. I made a facebook account to look for bigotry against Mirpuris but couldn’t find any. Where are you having these conversations? It seems the Urdu-speaking lot are more prevalent on facebook and the English speakers on Twitter. Regardless, we should be wherever possible to fight racism against Mirpuris, and advocating for those without a voice in POK.

    • Myra you said that in Kotli everyone hates them. That maybe the case but then why do we never see any protests in POK against Pakistan?

      • Hi Jatt,

        This was a protest in Kotli just a few days ago.

        https://twitter.com/i/status/1068108846839865345

        It’s not very safe to openly admit your pro-Independence stance in POK. Many have told me that their family members have been disappeared because they were critical of Pakistani occupation. Another thing is all the regions are very disconnected from each other so they’ll never be able to start a mass protest throughout POK. Like the Ponchis think they are the only ones who are pro-Independence and the rest love Pakistan, and then you talk to the Kotli(Mirpur) lot and they think they are the only ones who are fighting Pakistani occupation completely unaware about the other regions. There’s probably a handful of activists who are well travelled throughout the region who know the opinions of people in every area. It is these activists who will have to unite all the activists from the other regions in order to make a mass areawide protest.

  5. Punyal,

    This is from Muzaffarabad, too, and Bagh and other places. Look at how the police operate, and also why are all the senior police officers from Pakistan Punjab?

    https://twitter.com/AKLM_Official?lang=en-gb

    Can someone please explain why are all the senior roles going to Pakistanis from Pakistan mainland? Supporters of Pakistan have no right to lecture the rest of us. This is not loyalty, this is servitude, we have becomes slaves of an occupying force that offers us nothing but servitude. 70 years of occupation, and what have Pakistani patriots delivered AJK?

    They don’t even want to accept their own mistakes!

    Nothing but insults, disinformation and lies. They are the facilitators of occupation.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNR30DX2aUk Many of them get paid to come out, encouraged, nothing to fear. Like the Mullahs on speed-dial, the army makes the phone call, and the mobs turn out.

    The pro-independence Kashmiri protestors are always harassed. Is that fair?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKP-_-JFs1I the area is off-limits to journalists.

    Eventually the people of AJK will all come out, because AJK is tyranny. This isn’t Indian propaganda against Pakistan, or Pakistani propaganda against India. This is about ordinary people demanding their rights. This is about the truth, justice, fairness, righting of wrongs. Pakistan doesn’t care about the people of AJK.

    So what do you want them to do, be quiet and just suffer in silence, die unnoticed?

    Was this the Pakistan you were praising before?

    Pakistan wants the land, the water, the resources, the Dams, not the People whose identities they want to demean. If their children (real Pakistanis) demean us (fake Pakistanis from AJK) in the UK, what does that tell you about their parents? Where is this hatred coming from, and who benefits from it? They want to divide and rule us by making us separate “regions”, separate “castes”, separate “people”.

    They even want to write us out of our region, our history. They’re trying to make us into Punjabis.

    That’s why they stoop so low to insult us, trying to divide us, why do they keep doing this? They use everything in their arsenal to divide us. They want to talk about JATT? They want to talk about Rajput? They want to talk about Kashmiris? But they don’t want to talk about occupation? Exploitation? Unjust policies? Forced removals, disappearances, demographic changes in Gilgit, the murder of Hindus and Sikhs, the murder of Muslims? Imposition of Sunnis on Shias in Gilgit Baltistan.

    Did Kashmir ask for Pakistan’s partition? Pakistan’s agents are all over AJK.

    No one is stupid, we all know what is happening. They want to pretend that there are no issues in AJK, Pakistan has benefitted SO MUCH from AJK, THESE ARE FACTS. What does AJK get in return but the insults of people who are not deserving of fraternity with us, as others want to lie about the history of AJK making c*** up about this conflict region?

    Enough is enough.

    ordinary people just speaking out, (being fair to all sides)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8JOLcWYXM4

    Indian portrayal of grievances in Azad Kashmir

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0INotw87fo

    Blogger portrayal of Kashmir Conflict

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LXW7tdMTyU

    This is what Pakistan wants the world to see

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efQvRm1VPOI

    Ordinary person speaking of problems in his part of AJK (requesting help of NGOs)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjfuPRc7xxM

    Divided Kashmir (these are all Pahari lands divided by two unjust occupiers)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPo6dh870ds

    An ordinary activist speaking out, Kotli

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDQ-Opk8EVY&t=62s

    This is what Pakistan wants to show instead (even as the interviewed are indirectly saying there are no jobs in AJK)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9x42aNIUtR0

    So who controls the narrative?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYh0nnvLrOM

    Pakistan and Indian control the narrative. They don’t want Jammu & Kashmir to speak for itself.

    Jammu & Kashmir Narrative (Krishan Dev Sethi)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jr4v1XbQf00

    Jammu & Kashmir (Tahira Syed, daughter of Malika Pukraj, Akhnur, Mirpur) – the respectable NARRATIVE of JK for Pakistan CONSUMPTION, SING SONGS BUT Don’t dare TALK ABOUT Pakistan OCCUPATION, a sort of oppression the people of this region have grown accustomed to, even before JK State came into existence in 1846.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swT0PVxJIlE

    https://www.youtube.com/user/ajkashmir/featured STORIES FROM DIVIDED KASHMIR (JK NARRATIVE; both Kashur and Paharis can be seen speaking/crying about their shared problems – these are the people of Jammu & Kashmir; race theories that divide these people are just propogandistic)

  6. Pahari and Myra,
    Thanks for all the information.
    Well it is sad to see and read about POK. However the missing piece in the Jigsaw is the historical fact that only and only Mirpur division joined Pakistan and that is because only and only Mirpur division had educated and wise and brave sons and daughters. Pakistan always demeaned us and played favourites with the less educated and far less travelled and inexperienced Poonch and MZD people. The Poonch people were happy to be called brave and clever and so along with others they also never really wanted to accept Mirpuri leadership, and the truth whether you like it or not was that we were the only ones who always told them what were the facts. We Mirpuris were always at the forefront in all J&K in all struggles.

    Now you are saying some people in Bagh or Rawalkot are protesting but until the historic and true sons of the soil namely Mirpuris get involved these unfortunate people will be unable to do anything. But I ask, should we wait for them to first accept, that in reality only we can be the gamechangers.

    First they have to accept our leadership and stewardship and then we can make a difference if not then good luck to Poonch and MZD.
    Only mirpuris are economically and educationally able to make a change, and if they do want our help they have to accept our position.

    Otherwise as you say Myra with Pakistani money all of starving poonch will declare mirpuri as Hindus from Bengal. There is no point trying to lead without these people agreeing in advance as otherwise as soon as you become in a strong position some farooq type person will tell his poonch fiancee to complain about fake paharis from Mirpur.

    Some of the people of Pakistan hate Mirpuris because they know we are independently minded and are able to maintain that independence due to our financial position. The rest of POK is not independently minded anyway and so they are liked as they are yesmen.

    Also Pakistan is not making these people talk of religion, region or caste all day, they accepted to do it voluntarily and the only people who can take them out of that quagmire is, you guessed it yours truly the Mirpuris.

    Also Myra and Pahari I never really used the Pahari or Kashmiri label. I just use Mirpuri or Jatt as I know, the same people who dislike us being Pakistanis, Kashmiris will also accuse us of not being Paharis. We will probably be told that the Pahari belt starts at Palandari.

    This is why I Just went back to basics and said OK I am a JATT from Dadyal. If I said anything else they will accuse me of falsehood and false facts.

    All the freedom movement started in Mirpur and in fact it started in 1948 in Dadyal. Look it up if you like.
    JKLF was more or less all started by Mirpuris as well. This is one of the reasons why we are disliked and why some are interested in dis assocating us with the rest of J&K.

    But like the grooming victims cannot be helped until they come forward and stop suffering stockholm syndrome, we too cannot help these people until they accept the reality.

    • Jatt Punyal

      The JK struggle involves all communities across the State, in both administered parts, if you want to say occupied (POK, IOK), that’s a particular take you can take, others want to engage both India and Pakistan to resolve Kashmir’s conflict status, so the language they use is tempered. Whether people want independence or remain part of Pakistan as part of a genuinely autonomous State (the citizens of JK run AJK), there are of course other proposed solutions, there is no division between Mirpuris and Poonchees, or any other regional community in AJK.

      We’ve pointed out here on numerous occasions that this “divide and rule” tactic has no semblance of reality on the ground, this picture you paint through your language has no corresponding fault-line. If there are regional specificities, they are being exaggerated as imagined fault lines that don’t exist. AJK is an ethnically and culturally homogenous region (for the purposes of culture, language, ethnicity or what you call – “race”), that’s just an incontestable fact. I’ve since been speaking to people from both Poonch and Muzaffarabad more regularly, they are practically indistinguishable from Mirpuris, and they don’t see themselves as separate people, so why do you keep insisting on presenting AJK’s communities in this way? No one from Dadyal Mirpur as ever seen someone from Rawalakot or Muzzuffarabad as a separate “people”, to argue otherwise is to be disingenuous.

      We’ve already had discussions on the caste-system, it’s all illusory, a form of engineered “divide and rule” by colonial policies that have since expired. No one in AJK speaks of Mirpuris as “Hindus from Bengal”, or “clever Poonchees”. No one speaks of “starving Poonchees”, or “fake Paharis” (this term is absurd given the negative connotations that come with the Pahari label in AJK itself), and they don’t use the language of “caste, region or religion” amongst themselves voluntarily as you suggest. It’s simply not true. The only people who make these sorts of claims have agendas of dividing the people into separate enclaves to serve their own interests. It’s not going to work because it is not true, and those who insist on dividing people like this, using sinister tactics, should think hard about Pakistan and India’s ethnic and linguistic demographies. They are playing with fire and should seek some contrition. I’ve also been speaking to more Valley Kashmiris recently, and they don’t recognise the claims that are being placed by outsiders in their mouths, on social media forums.

      They see themselves, the ones I’ve been speaking to at least, as belonging to the same divided homeland, a territory that has lots of problems that need resolving. Pakistan wants to present them as anti-India, and India wants to present them as anti-Pakistan – the “wise” ones at least, who are also demonised for being pro-independence.

      For the purposes of the Kashmir Conflict, Jammu & Kashmir is 1 unit and the 17 million people comprise one population. India and Pakistan are fighting for the entire territory (JK is contested territory for the purposes of the Indo-Pak conflict; UN resolutions do not talk about ethnic people or caste groups – this idea is just absurd). The UN talks about Jammu & Kashmir and her people – the Kashmiris. That’s the working definition for the state subjects of Kashmir State.

      To then continue speaking of AJK’s apparent internal diversity on the basis of whatever it is you are espousing (entirely imagined), all on the back of a discredited caste-system (the very people who engineered this system have written prolifically about it’s artificial nature – their books are plentifully available) and race science (discredited unanimously in the 1940s by American biologists) it beggars belief that you’re still employing such sentiments here. The “Jat” are not a separate population from the Sudhan in Poonch; do not conflate a tribal system that is becoming irrelevant to people’s lives in AJK with ethnicity or race – even the Sudhans are not ignorant of their own appearances to feel they are somehow different from Jat, those who make these claims are either ignorant of all the Jat and Sudhan we come across daily, or they have agendas. Which is it?

      To argue otherwise, you need to show me the “quintessential” “Jats” and “Sudhans” to determine the exact racial identity of such people to make the comparisons and contrasts. Of course the idea is absurd, an idea debunked nearly a 100 years ago.

      So I would advice you to desist with the inflammatory language you keep using about alleged differences between Poonch and Mirpur. You’re putting words into the mouthes of people who have never once uttered such remarks. I know outsiders make these claims, especially those living in Pakistan, many of whom also claim ancestral ties with AJK, but why are you, a person from Dadyal making these claims?

      It makes no sense as I am sure you are aware of the people who make up the AJK population?

      as for the Jat, they are an ambiguous group comprised of huge diversity internally (like every group identity out there including the “Sudhans” “Poonchees” or those who present themselves as “ethnic Kashmiris” – these are all social constructs); this is what was said about the Jat in an academic paper that looked at a sample from India and other ethnic groups; (had the researchers looked at Muslim Jats, I’m sure the diversity in question would have increased)…

      “This study has shown that the genetic origins of the Jats can be traced to at least nine and possibly more MRCA’s, with nine different geographical origins that are spread thousands of miles apart (e.g., from the Fertile Crescent to Serbia). These nine MRCAs were genetically different. Therefore, any assertion that Jats are descendants of a single ancient population such as, the Indo-Aryans or Indo-Scythians cannot be supported. However, certain members of the Jat ethnic group who belong to haplogroups L and R—along with members of several other ethnic groups in the Indian subcontinent who belong to the same two haplogroups—are the most probable candidates to be linked to these ancient populations.

      The human Y-chromosome provides a powerful molecular tool for analyzing Y-STR haplotypes and determining their haplogroups which lead to the ancient geographic origins of individuals. For this study, the Jats and 38 other ethnic groups in the Indian subcontinent were analyzed, and their haplogroups were compared. Using genetic markers and available descriptions of haplogroups from the Y-DNA phylogenetic tree, the geographic origins and migratory paths of their ancestors were traced.

      The study demonstrated that based on their genetic makeup, the Jats belonged to at least nine specific haplogroups, with nine different lines of ancestry and geographic origins. About 90% of the Jats in our sample belonged to only four different lines of ancestry and geographic origins. Therefore, attributing the origins of this entire ethnic group to loosely defined ancient populations such as, Indo-Aryans or Indo-Scythians represents very broad generalities and cannot be supported. The study also revealed that even with their different languages, religions, nationalities, customs, cuisines, and physical differences [pls note this], the Jats shared their haplogroups with several other ethnic groups of the Indian subcontinent, and had the same common ancestors and geographic origins in the distant past. Based on recent developments in DNA science, this study provided new insights into the ancient geographic origins of this major ethnic group in the Indian subcontinent. A larger dataset, particularly with more representation of Muslim Jats, is likely to reveal some additional haplogroups and geographical origins for this ethnic group.”

  7. Reiss,

    You never understood my point. My point all along was when I said:

    This is why I Just went back to basics and said OK I am a JATT from Dadyal. If I said anything else they will accuse me of falsehood and false facts.

    There is an inherent hatred of mirpuris and this is not confined to Punjab. All mirpuris used to and the majority do still identify as Pakistanis, but the Pakistani mainstream and those with a voice that can be heard rejected mirpuris as fakes.
    Mirpuris then retreated and some started identifying as Kashmiris, again the Kashmiri mainstream and those who claim a locus standi and whose voices were always considered more credible rejected us as fakes.
    Now some are identifying as pahari in the hope that some clarity may be gained and mercy shown from the same Pakistanis and Kashmiris who previously scorned them.
    But I doubt that will happen and we will again be going down the same path we went down before, the same people will refute our claims as being Paharis. Some will argue that Bhimber and Mirpur are not pahari some will argue Kotli is not in the pahari belt etc..

    What I was saying was that we need to get to the root of the problem and the root is that hatred of mirpur will not disappear by us changing labels.

    I said lets get to basics in the hope that I would not at least be denied the very basic building blocks of my identity of being a Jatt from Dadyal. But Reiss you want to even refute that. Reiss were you a salafi in your childhood that your programmed to refute everything.

    My point was that we are denied all access to any issues and declared persona non grata by Pakistanis and kashmiris and these are the people that make up the pahari belt. In that case lets go in as Mirpuris only, lets not make our base wide, then we can see where we stand before committing to a movement that will not benefit us.
    Reiss I said all along lets just secure our own future as Mirpuris and not worry about the people who never liked us to start with.
    As I said in all honesty the Poonch and Mzd people do not respect us or accept us. It is only due to financial reasons that they show some warmth.
    Until you see these people interacting with Pakjabis you will never know there true views.
    Mirpuris are in fact a successful and hard working community and the vast majority are homeowners and gainfully employed with many highly educated professionals and businessman. So why not just say who we are and lets see who wants to make common cause with us.

    Also on the final point about Sudhans, you can refute the race and tribe thing but they think that they are Afghans who are decended from Abdali and are conquerors of Kashmir and now like being called sadozai. There wishful thinking coupled with Pakistani government policies of divide and rule have made them willing partners of Pakistan in denying the Mirpuris their fair share and voice. The same way pro Pakistanis want to gloss over Pakistan’s unfair policy to Mirpur the same way the Kashmiri nationalists want to gloss over the unfairness suffered by Mirpuris. No Kashmiri nationalist have ever advocated for Mirpuris rights vis a via the royalties for Mangla being spent in Mirpur, none has asked for an Airport and roads in Mirpur etc..

    • Hi Jatt,

      Mirpuri is our regional identity, Pahari is our ethnic identity, and Kashmiri or Jammu Kashmiri is our state political identity. I’m personally not seeking Poonchis or Muzaffarabadis approval when using the Pahari label and neither do I need a Koshur speaker from the valley to tell me I can use the “Kashmiri” label. “Mirpuri”, “Pahari”, “Kashmiri” are all our identities. We should proudly proclaim all three. All three identities are factually correct when describing us. If I take an idiot seriously who tells me I can’t use these three identities, then I’m as stupid as they am. I purposely go out of my way to use these identities because as Mirpuris we are sick and tired of others describing what we are, and what we aren’t; what labels we can use to identify ourselves and which one we can’t. So if you’re waiting for all the Poonchis and Muzaffarabadis to give you permission and approval before you start using Pahari for yourself: Forget it, your never going to get it.

      In regards the Poonchis being racist against Mirpuris, I think people will have to interact with them independently and make their own mind up. Neither I nor Reiss nor anyone else I know from Mirpur seems to be having the experiences you had with them. I’ve been asking these questions to Poonchis privately and none of them recognise what your saying. For example, the Sudhozhai believe themselves to be descended from Pashtuns but that’s it. They don’t have any special affinity with Pashtuns or want to make a Pashtun homeland. They see Pashtuns as Pakistanis and the occupier just like Punjabis, and they see Mirpuris as fellow Kashmiris and Paharis.

      Tbh bro, I don’t think Poonchis sit around thinking about Mirpuris like diaspora Pakistanis do. Outside of the UK, we are not that important. Here are some tweets I received a month ago when I asked one Poonchi online regarding what your saying:

      https://twitter.com/ShaheedFaheem/status/1060877982506606594
      https://twitter.com/ShaheedFaheem/status/1060879799781154816
      https://twitter.com/ShaheedFaheem/status/1060880604168904704

      But I would advice people interact with them yourself and make your own mind up. Don’t just believe what you hear on the internet. POK is a disputed territory so the identities of the people therein are always in question.

    • Brother Jatt

      No one in Poonch hates you. No one in Muzzafarabad hates you. Mirpuris are the brothers and sisters of the peoples of this State, Muslim, Hindu, Sikh, or of no faith. We are one people under the yoke of occupation, even as our people wake up slowly from their slumber, our fight is a just one, we are demanding the right to govern ourselves in our homeland.

      The Valley Kashmiris are your brothers and sisters. We are one people under the yoke of a horrible occupation, even as our people in the UK wake up slowly from their slumber.

      This is why they want to divide us into different camps and interest groups. Don’t let them succeed.

  8. Dear Jutt i am Poonchi Kashmiri .we hv no hate for indigenous JKashmiris.Mirpur is Jkashmir pride Part mirpuris r beloved patriotic children of State Jkashmir.
    These puppet want to sow seed of hatred among mirpuris and other Jkashmiris.We have sympathies respect for all 18millions indigenous Jkashmiris.
    Poonchi Kashmiris condemn all conspracies against sudhans or mirpuris or poonchies.
    Mind your own business n shut mouth here against Jkashmiris children’s.

    Please extend courtesy to your interlocutors. You may not necessarily agree with their views, but this should not stop you from being polite. Portmir Foundation encourages dialogue and mutual understanding within a spirit of cordiality. Thank you.

    MODERATOR

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